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STARRING DANIELLE (aka. me), NATALIE (a friend), AND PAUL (my fiance')

DANIELLE: One thing that really aggravates me about fandoms--ANY fandom--is the pointless quest to milk every relationship between two characters--be it respectful, hostile, protective, or parasitic--for sexual tension. Desperate much? Not every feeling is a precursor to sex. When you play like all bonds lead to the sack, you're basically writing them off as a means to the cheapest possible end...and I'm speaking as someone who thinks that sex rocks. Regardless of how much you love it, it's not always necessary.

NATALIE: Total truth. You see it in every single fandom in existence, though. Now, I will be the first to say there are a few shows out there that absolutely play with their slash audience, totally intentionally and are blatantly feeding them--but not every relationship that is deep translates to a sexual relationship, IMO. And I think a lot of members of fandoms are really screwing their own heads reading them that way. Is that what you think love looks like? Really? Kind of along the same lines, people thinking every bad guy is "redeemable" just because he's hot--folks out there willing to forgive any number of depraved acts by putting the character on some kind of pedestal "oh, but really he's just hurting, etc". Slippery slope, man--would you forgive those kinds of actions in your life?

DANIELLE: Could not have said it better. Seriously. Yes, there are characters that lend themselves to ships and slashing. Kimber and Stormer from Jem!, my girl-girl OTP, come to mind. But this practice of throwing two people together at random simply because they both send your libido into a tailspin...I just don't have that gene. It's submental, in a way, not to mention dismissive of how people's feelings work. Harry Potter and Draco Malfoy, for example--I know that's a huge thing among the fangirls, including some people I consider friends. Which, more power to them, but beyond their First Amendment rights, all I can think is, "WHY?!" And don't get me started on Han/ Luke slashers. I just want to rip out a major artery with my teeth.

NATALIE: Never, ever, EVER got Harry/Draco. Likewise with Harry/Snape. There was definitely more to their relationship, but it sure as hell wasn't sexual. Makes no sense to me. I love the derivative nature of fanfic and I think it's brilliant as a social experiment and a growing art form. BUT, as a reader, if I don't see something in the canon material to support reasoning for the relationship, outside of basic attraction to both characters in a pairing, then I simply can't get on board with it. YES yes yes, dismissive of how feelings work, and how romance/relationships work. Dude, I'm not interested in a smutty romance that makes no sense--if I wanted that I'd read a friggin' Harlequin. Each to their own and everything, and I don't want to crap on other people's OTP, but I agree that the desperation factor of sifting through every little glance and turning it into something it isn't reeks of a basic lack of understanding of human nature. Han/ Luke slashers, just...no. Not saying every fan pairing has to be canon to have validity--not by a long shot. But interpreting ANY form of tension, as sexual tension, does a great disservice to the quality of the writing on the show you love.

DANIELLE: Han Solo would no more sleep with another man than he'd impregnante Chewbacca. (And you can bet your ass some sick douchebag out there has written a fic about that.) That's the part of it that gets to me, the complete refusal to align a character's actions with their personality. Luke...I don't know. His sexuality is pretty ambiguous, so he's more flexible. Similarly, there's quite a bit of Luke/ Wedge out there, more than you'd think, and I don't have a problem with it because Wedge is such a reserved character, it's not a stretch to picture him being full of surprises. It's not my favourite thing to imagine, but it doesn't make me roll my eyes hard enough to see my brain, either.

NATALIE: Agreed. There is a huge portion of fandom that reads any staunch heterosexual as closeted. I think that's a very slippery slope too. Like you, I can't fathom Han ever climbing in bed with another man. Like the picture [of Katniss and Cinna] you posted, I'm sorry, but [the relationship Greg House and James Wilson] just flatly isn't sexual tension, unresolved or otherwise. While [other pairings from shows such as Torchwood] blatantly are.

DANIELLE: I was so anti-Hilson in the beginning, and for the most part I still am, but toward the end, it was like, "Ah, screw it. They're such perfect soul mates, NOTHING is going to cheapen what they've got. Have at it."

PAUL: This is why fandoms are bad--they are inherently full of internet perverts. Just read the book, watch the TV series and move on.

DANIELLE: Perverts--yes, and I admit, I can be one of them. But I'm a discriminating pervert.

NATALIE: Paul, true, but perverts need friends, too. Danielle, I loved the relationship between House and Wilson, but never, ever saw it as sexual. Likewise with Sam/Dean on Supernatural--I am the first to say their relationship is deep, and that they are soulmates is absolutely canon because they shared a Heaven, but at the same time I still can't see them screwing. Haha.

DANIELLE: I've actually considered writing a Hunger Games fic--but it wouldn't have anything to do with sex, or a pairing. It would centre on District 11's reaping, when Thresh and Rue are called. I have some interesting theories on how Thresh became a tribute, and told from Rue's POV, the whole thing would be pretty devastating.

NATALIE: I'd read it. I've seen The Hunger Games but haven't read the book, and read none of the fanfic. Rue was my favourite character though and I would definitely be more interested in backstory from her district. (I'm sure there was more in the books).

DANIELLE: Rue's death absolutely gutted me, in the book and the movie, and Thresh was the tribute I related to the most. So they're both hard characters to shake. And District 11 has probably the most draconian authority practices, which is where some of my personal ideas come from. If you get a chance, definitely read the books. They may be marketed toward young girls, but that's some deep stuff in there.

NATALIE: Will do. Let me know if you write the fic, would like to read it.

DANIELLE: I will for sure. Like I said, right now I'm just sort of jotting down ideas and theories.

Comments

( 6 comments — Leave a comment )
(Deleted comment)
glamoursnipe
Feb. 7th, 2013 12:56 am (UTC)
Hahaha, you can have all the Kate you want. Could. Not. STAND. Her. Decent-looking babe, but terrible character and rotten actress. But yeah, meta-fic is a thing. Teenage girls, for example, just love writing fluffy pink dribble where they meet, boink, and live happily-never-after with the boyband alum of their choice.

I've actually been working on a Star Wars writing project for the past year or so, and I don't know about cuddle-buddy...but Chewie turns out to be a pretty capable doula when Leia has her twins.
lijahlover
Feb. 7th, 2013 04:10 am (UTC)
I feeel I must say something since I am a H/D shipper. The reason why we put them together is they look hot together, that is one reason. We see sexual tension because we want to see it and look for it... cause I think they look sexy together. I find the reason they fight so much is that they need to rip each others clothes off and have sex. There is a thin line between love and hate you know that saying. :)

Also they set me on fire with how sexy they look put together...Did I mention that before????

I don't need any other reason but I have many for why they blow my mind. They just do it for me plan and simple.

I lust after pwp's at times but I loooooooove a long plotty fic were they are both ic and it takes a long time to get them in bed.

One of my friends prides herself on making them as cannon as possible and ic, yet gets them to end up being together by the end of the story. Also one of my friends writes them very fluffy and sweet at times and lots of times kinky but she never writes them realisticly. I love them both for different ways of writing H/D.

I like m/m slash more than het fic. It turns me on more and I can hardly read het books anymore.

I do not see slash pairings with every show I watch.

With my new pairing I fell instanly in love with BBC Sherlock Sherlock/Watson. I was surprised myself at how fast I fell for them. With the first show I was in love with them as a couple. Just something I can't explain that happened instantly. Kinda like what happened with H/D or even Elijah/Dom. Something inside just exploded and I squeeee'd over them.

oh yeah and Tom Felton himself feeds us fangirls all the time. He loves H/D and is always mentioning that his fav couple ever written was them. He squeee's over Drarry :)))))
glamoursnipe
Feb. 7th, 2013 02:08 pm (UTC)
Gotcha. Wasn't trying to offend anyone, honest, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. At the time I had this conversation, I was pissed off at the idea of there being sexual tension between Cinna and Katniss (The Hunger Games), I needed to rant, and a lot of stuff erupted in the process.

Just because something doesn't work for me, doesn't mean it shouldn't work for anyone else. And if Tom Felton--an all-around nice guy, by all accounts I've heard--supports Drarry, etc., then that's cool; he sees what I don't. The main reason I don't get into them is I hate Draco as a character and sense nothing but animosity between him and Harry, though I can totally get behind Dan Radcliffe/ Tom Felton slash, as in all the LOTR RP stuff I used to read/ write. I'm weird.

There is bravery in EVERY non-canon pairing to an extent, because you're openly defying stuff as written and intended. (I'm kinda sorta a Remus/ Sirius slasher, even though I like Remus/ Tonks, too. Confusing, but fun.)

Bottom line: write and read whatever makes you happy, and next time I'll try to stay on topic when I'm ranting. Deal? :)

Edited at 2013-02-07 06:22 pm (UTC)
lijahlover
Feb. 7th, 2013 08:58 pm (UTC)
Oh I agree about the character Draco being a hard character to like. In the books he was a stuck up spoiled snot. I like how stories can redeem him though.

I do like rps Dan/Tom as well they are brilliant. I find I'm not into to many cannon pairings when reading. I love Ron/Hermione though so much.

I never really liked Harry with Ginny, I thought he could have found someone more suited for him than her. I would have liked him to be with a guy more than a girl maybe. No way the author would write that though, way to much controversey. Of coarse the guy would have had to have been Draco and they would have needed a whole lot longer to get them together believeably. I'm not sure the movies would have had that kind of time. *giggles*

I see how it is brave to write something non cannon. You are saying I like these two as a pairing more than what the author writes... so I will just write it this way. I enjoy hate sex and it is so believeable with them, were they rip into each other then rip their clothes off and pound each other into the floor. Throw in some dirty talk and I have about passed out from the lack of oxegen. LOL!

Tom i think is wonderful, kind and he likes to make all his fans (even us slash fans) like him.

And you didn't offend me in the slightest. I am sure I have many friends that read such odd things and pairings I'd even scratch my head in confusion. But I think like you do...write and read whatever makes you happy. The world would ba a dull place indeed if we all liked and read the same thing.

It didn't come across like you wanted to offend any one I just thought as a Drarry lover I had to throw what I thought in the conversation :)
glamoursnipe
Feb. 7th, 2013 10:31 pm (UTC)
Ginny is probably my least-favourite Weasley, which isn't saying much, because I love the whole family with all my heart and soul. But she's nowhere near as interesting as her parents or brothers. (Fred's was the only death that literally had me exclaiming, "What the fuck, Rowling?", and I'm speaking as someone who cites Remus Lupin as my favourite character.) Throughout the series, only a handful of things about Ginny stood out to me: she got prettier as she got older, and from the beginning, she had a painfully obvious crush on Harry. She was no Hermione Granger, not by a long shot.


Even my mom, a raging Potterhead, didn't in a million years imagine that Ginny was who Harry would end up with.

The canon, in my opinion, never introduced Harry's "perfect match", but the two senarios I like best are A) Cho Chang redeems herself to him and they gradually regain their feelings for each other, or B) Harry and Cedric Diggory fall in love during the Triwizard Tournament, based on how deeply protective of and devoted to each other they were, even as competitors. Of course, Voldemort wasn't much help in making that scenario happen...but Harry's reaction to Cedric's murder wasn't that of a casual acquaintance.

You know, I just remembered that Draco and Narcissa do redeem themselves a little toward the end (Lucius remains an insufferable douche, of course)...so maybe I can't picture Drarry happening anytime before the Battle of Hogwarts...BUT, if Harry and Draco were to reunite a few years down the line, older and wiser...huh. I see it, I totally see it. I guess all I needed was another perspective.

None of this changes the fact that I'll never, ever, EVEREVEREVEREVEREVEREVER buy Han Solo getting with Luke Skywalker, no way, no how. That's one pairing I'll always meet with a squick and a harsh objection. :lol:

Wow, this has been fun. We should have these conversations more often! :)

Edited at 2013-02-07 10:32 pm (UTC)
lijahlover
Feb. 7th, 2013 10:56 pm (UTC)
This is fun to converse with you :)

Some of the best stories I have read with H/D happen to be epiloge compliant. They meet up much later when their kids are all grown up(or in Hogwarts) and they are both divorced and matured and they start seeing one another. Or their sons Al and Scorpius are friends(Or more than friends) in school so they start meeting up cause they are forced to and sparks start to fly shocking them both. I have much love for those kind of fics as well. Lots of people like their sons getting together because they pysically look like Harry and Draco without the baggage their dads had. :)

Ohhhhhh Fred's death ripped me up, his and Sirius Black :((((((

Han Solo is a sexy yet straight man. :) Luke probably bi but would never get Han to sleep with him. :)
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